As I have been informed that I cannot quote the private messages, Verbatim, then I will give you an amended and edited run-down of the exchange. The messages I received have been paraphrased and are NOT the exact words of the poster, but a "general idea" of what was written. My messages will remain intact as they are MY words and this I give permission to reprint them here.
So I belong to a national mom's site where one can post parenting questions and issues and get answers. The site I work for is the local Miami/Ft. Lauderdale site but there is also a National Thread in which more politically charged discussions take place. Recently, a thread about redefining marriage to allow same sex couples to marry was posted and, while most people were in favor of it, a few holy rollers began to use the pulpit and their religion to deny basic human rights to same sex couples. I, of course, was vocal about my opinions about the "god loving" being hypocritical and denying people to marry, and thus I was blessed with one of these said holy rollers invading my inbox with her tripe.
XXXXXXXX wrote:
Aging Goth Mom,
You don't understand me! I love God and Jesus and the Bible but I use aforementioned things to justify why I think being gay is wrong and why gay people shouldn't be treated like human beings with rights! You think you're so smart with your big words and scary Atheist talk! Why don't you just understand that the only answer to everything is "god,god,god, god". I am trying to be nice to you by condemning gay people and you're just being so mean to me and baby Jesus!
My reply:
Stating my opinion is not "mockery". All gods, including yours, are imaginary. And yes, you're absolutely right, your faith is not important to me at all. I don't base my opinions of people on what religion they are. My best friend is Christian and my other best friend belongs to a really neat Metaphysical church. So please don't think I "misunderstand" or "mock" you based on your religious preference. I don't agree with your stance on gay marriage and believe it to be discriminatory and hateful and that is why I don't care for your opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Don't sit there and try to say that you're trying to be "respectful" and "understanding" about the issue at hand. You're not. Your religion has no basis on what another couple or another group of people want to do with their lives. Just like my choices have no effect on you (I got Chinese food for dinner), other people's choices should not have any on you as well. If the foundation of your faith is so shaky that you think it can be harmed by what complete strangers do, then I suggest you look inward and try to remedy YOUR relationship with god instead of trying to dictate what other people should do with their lives.
Your relationship with god, your faith in him, and your religion have nothing to do with the choices OTHER people make. If you do indeed believe that there is a god, then it is his job to pass judgement on those he feels are deserving of it. Not yours. Thus, you have no right to dictate what anyone, apart from those who live under your roof and you care for, do in their lives.
I'm sure you'll read this and say that once again I am "mocking" you and I am sure that you will probably read what I write and still not understand how your posts are bigoted and hateful towards a specific group of people. But I hope that maybe, in a moment of clarity, you may actually understand.
Enjoy your evening.
XXXXXXX reply:
You're still being mean to me and Baby Jesus! Don't you know that if you don't completely agree with me then that means you're being disrespectful?!?! I guess it is because you are a mean Atheist with no morals that can make you be so mean!
I have a gay sister and she thinks it's just great that she isn't allowed to get married and that my family and church condemn her lifestyle. She's just fine with it so I don't see why you have to be so mad about it!
Gay marriage and gay people are the reason for AIDS, divorce, STD's, hurricanes, earthquakes, typhoons, Obama's election, and the economy!
You're always so mean in your posts but I still wanted to message you to tell you how much I love god. I guess I will never say anything again because my feelings are hurt.
My reply:
Again, it's not disrespectful to state my opinion. Or would you rather I be silent and quiet and a little mouse. Also, if we were to follow your "logic", you would be being disrespectful by not acknowledging the gods of the Hindus (Vishnu, Ganesh, Kali, etc.), the Norse gods (Odin, Loki, Thor, etc.), the Greek gods (Zeus, Hera, Mercury, Hades, etc.), the Roman gods (Jupiter, Venus, Minerva, etc.), the THOUSANDS of Native American gods and spirits, the THOUSANDS of African gods and spirits, ALL of which are still worshipped today around the world and ALL of which are just as important as YOUR god.
In essence, by claiming that YOUR god is THE ONLY ONE, you are being "disrespectful" to all these other beliefs and cultures yourself, so please don't purport to preach to me about hurting your feelings. YOURS is NOT the only "truth" out there and it is pretty closed-minded and egocentric to actually believe it is.
I wonder if you would consider me so "hateful" and "intolerant" if I were Jewish or Muslim, or any of the other above religions. Bottom line, you have a problem with me because I am an Atheist and don't believe in fairy tales. Which is fine. But please don't pretend that you are just trying "to explain" your stance on gay marriage. I don't care about your explanation and I don't care that you have a gay sister.
If you are constantly being "hurt and offended" by my posts, I suggest you either grow a thicker skin (maybe pray on it), or just ignore my posts and move on. Just like you, I am strong in my beliefs and proud of who I am, and will NOT be silenced by anyone.
I would ask that you please stop messaging me, as I really have no interest in continuing this discourse with you. As I stated in my previous note, my opinions of your posts are not based on what god you choose to serve, but rather your exclusionary opinions of gays and lesbians.
Regards.
*************************************************************************************
I thought that would be the end of that, but now she has posted this "subtle" missive on her local site, saying I am cyber bullying her:
XXXXX wrote:
Waaaaah! Aging Goth Mom Cyber bullied me! Let me write this post so I can draw attention to myself and gain sympathy from people who don't know that I've been harassing her in private messages.
I believe this is the post she is referring to:
Also, I've been receiving PM's from a certain user on this thread who claims that my opinion of those using religion as a case against gay marriage is "hurting their feelings" and "insulting" their "god". So, in order to avoid these annoying messages in my inbox, I would like to CHANGE my opinion publicly and say:
Gays and Lesbian marriage: baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!
God/Jesus/Bible: gooooooooooooood.
Yes, I can see now, I am a veritable bullying force to be reckoned with. Seriously. This lady needs to call a whaaaaaaambulance. But only if the EMTS are straight.
UPDATE: Said "victim" has deleted her accusatory post on her local site, but in the interest of entertainment purposes only, my blog will remain intact.
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14 comments:
I love your point about not respecting/honoring OTHER faiths' Gods! Good one!
Not all Christians are so insecure in their faith that they need to berate people on the internet! I have to say I found the whole thing quite entertaining as it unfolded!
You're absolutely right Kristy. I think the poster failed to understand that my dislike of her opinions against same-sex marriage had NOTHING to do with her religion, but rather her USE of her religion to justify her bias toward it. There were many posters on the same thread who were Christian who supported SSM and who were women involved in SSM situations (and who were told they weren't "real" Christians by others BECAUSE they were in SSM relationships). It's all very confusing to me that someone who purports to follow an ideology whose main tenets are "love your brother", "goodwill towards men", and "hate the sin, not the sinner", are usually the very same that go against these simple tenets.
Oh sorry, I'm rambling. Hope you didn't think I was cyber-bullying you. ;)
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them.
She just didn't get that the offense that she took to an IDEA had nothing to do with you. Nothing you said was directed to her personally. She displaced her anger and shot the messenger. If ya can't grasp displacement and monitor your reactions accordingly, then ya aren't likely to grasp more complex notions like varying conceptualizations of “God”. Some people just know what they know and are simply too upset to contemplate otherwise.
Or, she could have simply said, "My God is real to me" rather than send private messages with accusations of "mocking". To an atheist, the concept of God IS imaginary! It's not mocking - it's another conceptualization. One that someone was unwilling to tolerate.
As an atheist I believe that all gods are imaginary and if you do claim that you know me "Anonymous", then you will also know that I don't mince my words. It's not due to a lack of intelligence, nor is it to be condescending, but I refuse to have respect for those who have no respect for others, especially while using an ancient book of allegory as a means of oppression.
I am not hostile in my response to her, I am blunt and honest. What? She's allowed to get all Jesus-y and I'm hostile. Please. Oh fucking well. I am so tired of the self-righteous shoving their tired ideology down my throat and using the pulpit as a means to oppress and demean groups of people solely because "god said so".
The term was "imaginary sky fairy", in case you want to write it down. And yes, it is an imaginary sky fairy. And yes, I plan on using that term often. And yes, I wholeheartedly believe that god is imaginary. Therefore, I am going to say it. Just like religious people can prance around talking about how god is real, I will prance around and say that he is not.
Oh darn, I guess I'm not being a good Atheist either. Maybe I'll get kicked out of the cool club.
You know, for some it doesn't not matter how respectful you are, it will always comes down to your belief vs. his/hers. Non-Christians are always bad. I know you got the memo!
I saw no bullying. Her post on the boards about bullies was over the line. That nullified any respect she claimed to have in the PMs with you.
Jesus Christ I need to pay attention to what account I'm in LOL!!!! Sorry that was me with the above comment... I blame the pain killers!
I find it funny that you're being attacked when I was the one who was actually rude about other peoples religions on that post... Well maybe not so much rude .. Or maybe I was? Either way I don't really care whether I was or not!
Still seems odd that they went after you and not me. You seem to have an admirer ;-)
I hear you Soph, I also find it funny that I posted an invitation to comment on the thread but they haven't since that would mean actually exposing who they are.
The cowardly are extremely amusing.
They just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside!
I had some woman actually DEMAND to know if I was joking after said that marriage was ne of the stupidest things I ever did. And if I was serious how could I bring a child into that...
Makes me want to dump bleach in my mouth
Awww! I'm your BFF??? How sweet:) Great post BTW!
Wow! Don't check in for a few days and miss A LOT!! Hahaha!!
I think I'm going to have to call the whaaaaaambulance because I pulled a muscle laughing!
You certainly keep it interesting, Alessia!!
Rock on, Momma!
Christ on a cracker!! I swear I check your blog every 5 seconds just *in case* you added something, and I missed this and two other posts... am I *that* up my own lately, or were these added in rapid secession?
Anyway, I want to go find this thread now. I would kick the asses of ANYONE bullying ANYONE about religion, and that includes kids. LOL..I don't give a good God damned what *I* believe, or what YOU believe, that is just WRONG.
BTW, I guess I am a bad Cristian now, since I cursed, used God's name in vain, used his name as something obscene, and didn't side with fellow Christians?
Ima buuuurrrrnnn...ooooooh. pft. Idiots.
You know, I don't believe in hell, and I believe in God. Am I clinically insane in the membrane?
Oh, and did you catch my comment in your other thread...where I said I love you?? I seriously crack myself up every time I think of it..Ima dorkus.
I love you (=
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